Episode 14
Jamie Swanson – Episode 014 – A Photographer Podcast Interview
In this episode of from Nothing to Profit, A Photographer’s Podcast, Matt and Kia interview Jamie Swanson, who is really leading the personal brand photography market. Jamie is actually starting a new podcast about building a personal brand so make sure to listen in. She also has a Facebook group for personal brand photography you should go join now. In the beginning, 2011, Jamie really focused on wedding photography. Then Jamie really focused on Moderntog, helping other photographers grow their businesses, in all genres. Now, Jamie focuses solely on personal brand photography and growing her client’s following, through Moderntog. She offers a 6 week course on how to transition to personal brand photography. Jamie also offers a membership for photographers who have taken her 6 week course. This started because Jamie was looking for an ongoing personal brand photographer for herself and she couldn’t find one. So she decided to train them up. Client’s are willing to invest in their business and they need your work on an ongoing basis. This gives you steady and consistent income as well. Jamie also talks about goal setting, starting with her yearly goals, then breaking them down into quarterly, monthly, weekly, and daily steps to reach those goals.
Resources:
Link to Jamie’s class: onekweekend.com or https://www.personalbrandphotography.com/
Book:
Start with Why – Simon Sinek (https://amzn.to/2BGuArv)
Transcription was done by Temi.com which means it’s an AI generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video.
Speaker 1: [00:01] Welcome to from nothing to profit, a photographer’s podcast with Matt and Kayak where each week they talk to photographers about what is working in their business now so you can swipe those ideas and grow your business faster.
Matt: [00:16] Hey everybody. Welcome to from nothing to profit with Matt and Kaya. So today we have a really awesome guest that I’ve, Jamie Swanson, who I’ve been friends with kind of via the Internet for a couple of years now, but we, if you guys listened to some earlier shows and people have referenced Jamie because Jamie’s really leading the personal brand photography movement and I know she believes that that’s the future of the industry. So I’m excited to talk to her about it. But she’s both an online entrepreneur and a photographer and you may know our because she founded modern tog or the modern tog back in 2011. So you may have been part of her community. Um, but you know her, what she kind does is help photographers and you know, live their life of being a, being a photographer. I know Jamie personally because we’re in a facebook group that’s called like photographer blogger group and it’s like, it, it ranges in size, but it’s anywhere from like 40 to 50 people have a bunch of people that put together resources for photographer. So we’ve been in that together for a number of years and you just announced the other day and in that group that you actually have a new podcast coming out as well. So do you want to take a quick second and plug your pro, your new podcast and tell us anything else we need to know about you?
Jamie: [01:33] You’re the sweetest thing. Sure. Um, so my new podcast is called the personal brand journey with Jamie m Swanson and basically since 2011 I’ve focused on growing the modern tog brand because I didn’t want to have to be the face of my business. I think a lot of us, you know, don’t want to have to be like the person, but I’m seeing more and more that the way to get ahead is to really build those personal connections. And so it’s basically chronicling my journey of starting a personal brand. So it’s not photography specific, but if there are photographers listening who want to be more of the face of their business, I mean your art, if, if your name is your business then you already are doing that in some respects. But basically I’m just talking about all that I’m doing and the strategy behind it so you can find that. But otherwise I have a personal brand photography group on facebook that’s free that you can find by going to PBP community.com. And that’s probably, I’m on instagram to you, Jamie, m swanson, but that’s the best way to find me. Thank you.
Matt: [02:33] Yeah. Awesome. So share a little bit about your, like your expertise and what you’re known for and for the people that haven’t come across to you yet in the industry.
Jamie: [02:42] Sure. So I started my photography business back in 2008 and I, I started like many people do kind of doing whatever I could get paid to do, but in 2009 we decided to niche down into weddings and to pursue doing photography full time. And so, um, we did, we, we focused in on weddings and we did that a full time starting in 2011. It took us about a year and a half to go from just starting out to completely supporting our family with photography. And then I did that for quite a while and then we moved to Minnesota and had our fifth and sixth children and we had a really hard time finding childcare up here. So since moving up here, we’ve just kind of done a little bit of portraiture on the side, um, and then had focused more on helping other people get clients through the modern tog.
Jamie: [03:33] And last year it was about a year ago now I had made this decision to start doing more of the personal brand stuff and was going to focus on instagram originally. And I needed photos. Like, yes, I can take photos, yes, my husband can do some. But I wanted somebody who could come and do these photos for us and we couldn’t find. I mean, we can find thousands of photographers who take beautiful images, but we had a really hard time finding people who really understood what we needed as online entrepreneurs in like to grow the social media following that we wanted and to really not just take a pretty headshot or a perfectly posed photo, but really understood how to capture our story and do it in such a way that it would help strengthen the personal brand that I wanted to grow. And so the light bulbs went off and basically I would the modern tog I had been.
Jamie: [04:24] I started that in 2011 and had been teaching pretty much any kind of photographer how to grow their business because I love photography. But I’m even geekier about the business side. Like I love the business side. And I, um, so I was helping wedding photographers and portrait photographers and um, it was pretty generic. And since last December, I’ve niched down and focused all in on the personal brand photography because I realized that I wasn’t the only entrepreneur, an online entrepreneur or influencer who needed images and that there were a ton of other people out there who would want these images on an ongoing basis because if you’re trying to grow on Instagram, you need to post daily and you don’t want to be spending half an hour a day taking selfies that aren’t even going to necessarily strengthen your brand and all that. So yeah, it was really big eyeopener.
Jamie: [05:14] But I’ve, I’ve niched out and I really believe that that’s. I know you said that, but that’s where we’re going in the future with, um, the industry and professional like to be profitable as a professional photographer. And so I’ve completely focused on that since it was, I think December 27th was the day that I shared about it with my audience for the first time. And since then it’s been my sole focus because it’s, it’s just made everything easier for my photographers. And it’s, it’s really, I’m seeing so many businesses transformed and I’ve done some shoots since then with that too. I, I love it because it’s kind of like wedding photography, but it’s way less stressful because there’s no, like crazy mother of the brides running around. Right. So anyways. Yeah. So Jamie, since I,
Kia: [05:58] since we haven’t ever met in person before, I have heard of modern tog and I’ve heard your name before. I would love to know even back further. So you say you have six children, how old are they? What did you do before you were a photographer and what is your husband involved in the business now or that type of thing? Just to get to know a little bit more about who you are.
Jamie: [06:19] Sure. So I’m back in 2008. When I started my photography business, I was working as an actuary for an insurance company full time. At that point I think we had, we had three kids when I started working as an actuary or do we have to know? We had to, when I started my business, we’re about to have our third of my kids right now are 13, 11 and nine and then five, three and two, sorry, we’re, we’re in that stretch of birthday so I have to stop and think about who’s had their birthday yet or not. So we have everything from teenager all the way through toddler and it’s, it’s insane. That’s true. So back when we, when we started the business, it was just me and my husband was still finishing up college and so he was just doing some community classes on the side while working a part time as well.
Jamie: [07:13] And when he was done with his classes for that and when he graduated, uh, he decided I made him come with me to a wedding or to, to carry bags. And we got excited by all the really fun, you know, Dslr gear because gear’s fund and um, he, I, you know, like probably like most photographers out there, I’ve been like, look at this photo, look at that. I get so excited. And he had a really great eye for it. So I’m like, well if you’re here you can grab a camera and you know, I basically, we took an afternoon and I taught him the basics of shooting manual and I’m like, just shoot for fun, you know, like, we don’t need any of the images, but he was really, really good at it. And so he did that while he was in college for a little bit with me, just kind of practicing. But then when he left college he did join me in the wedding photography full time and I mean he’s, it wasn’t like he was a second under me by the time he was through with college and we did that full time. He was just as strong of a shooter as I was. And so we did that together until we moved to Minnesota in 2013. And um, so we. What did you want to know about kids? I can’t remember.
Kia: [08:23] No, I want to know how old they were and uh, and where you came from. And then. So now I just to, so I understand. So modern tog is what you do for a living, both of you. It’s
Jamie: [08:36] the majority, I know he doesn’t do that at all. He’s got a business and the pickleball industry of all things, but um, so I, we do, I mean I do a handful of shoots per year but I get so much more joy out of watching, like helping other photographers get clients and still do some because I want to be relevant. I want to know what’s going on, what’s working and you know, all of that, but the majority of my time is spent helping other people to really grow the businesses they want to have so they can have, they can leave the job they hate or they can finally do photography full time and actually make a living beyond just, you know, minimum wage or less. And so that’s where I focus the majority of my time. Okay. Awesome. And so modern tog what you do with it as help people by blogging and facebook groups for thin view, like you sell products or is it a subscription or how to.
Jamie: [09:30] How do people kind of get your, get your expertise? So I’m with the modern tog right now everything I’m doing is personal brand photography based and so I, um, I sell a course that helps photographers pivot into personal brand photography. It’s a six week course. I offered a couple times a year and then before I run the course, I do a challenge because most people, the beauty of personal brand photography is that since clients need this over and over and over again, you can actually book clients that work with you for years at a time every single quarter. Right. And so I, most of the photographers now that I’ve been doing this year only need about 12 ongoing clients, these recurring clients to make a full time living and because it’s commercial in nature, you can charge more for it than regular portraiture. And so it’s really my focus on helping people get these recurring clients.
Jamie: [10:27] That’s what the course does. It helps them pivot into it. And then, um, before I run the course, I do this challenge because it sounds too good to be true. Like, you know, only needing 12 clients and not having, you know, once you’re fully booked, you don’t have to worry as much about marketing and all that because you have your clients. Right. And so, um, a lot of people say, well, how do you find these? These people don’t exist. They’ll just do it themselves. Nobody’s going to pay, you know, as much as a wedding or whatever for a single shoot. And so I do this thing called the [inaudible] weekend challenge where I basically, I do it for free and I tell people, Hey, I’m going to be opening my course up, but I know that um, you know, this might sound too good to be true or whatever else.
Jamie: [11:03] So let me help you get your client, like get some clients for some portfolio building clients to, you know, to see if they’re out there. Because most people don’t realize how many online entrepreneurs that are because they may have friends that they don’t even realize sell stuff online. Or I’m making a really great living online because they don’t necessarily live any different than them. And you know, people don’t always get it, huh? Well a lot of people are in such a niche group that you don’t, you don’t find them unless you’re looking for them. Totally. And so I basically give them a script in it. I call it the, I think I call it the starter script where they can take it word for word and posted on social media. And the goal is to help them book at least two clients at $500 a piece over a weekend.
Jamie: [11:52] And so I give them the script, I give them the process, we walked through it together as a community. It’s really fun. We do this huge event and then, um, we watch what happens and the goal is that they could make at least a thousand dollars over the weekend. That’s why it’s called the [inaudible] weekend. And then if they do decide that they want to continue moving forward with this and really pivot into the personal brand photography, then they’ve already got the money. They need to take the course. So I do that for free. I have the course and then I do have a contract that I created with an intellectual property lawyer because personal brand photography is kind of like a hybrid between traditional commercial photography and portraiture. It’s, it’s a mix between traditional commercial photography and portraiture and so the contract is kind of a hybrid between the two as well.
Jamie: [12:42] And we. I had, I had recommended a different commercial contract for a while, but so many people were having to customize so much of it where there are lawyers that I just, I found a lawyer who was willing to work with me and create something that’s specific to this niche. So I have the contract, I have the course, and then for anyone who goes through the course, they get an exclusive invitation to a membership that they can join to work with me on an ongoing basis, but that’s only available to people who have gone through the course and that’s specifically focused on taking it and doing all of the marketing going forward. So that’s, that’s kind of the things. I do have some old products that are still out there that people can buy, but that’s what I focus on. I’m sharing with photographers.
Kia: [13:24] I’m really impressed because what you’ve done is found a need for photographers, but not necessarily like it doesn’t sound like it was what you were doing for yourself, but you created you. You’re teaching people how to do it even though you didn’t necessarily do it first. Right. Would that be.
Jamie: [13:41] Well, what have to say? What happened was that I. I was my ideal client, like I wanted this and I couldn’t find. I literally went to Google. I searched every term I can think of because there wasn’t a single term that was one of the things I’ve really pushed us using the term personal brand photography and I’ve been using it within my entrepreneurial communities as well to help raise awareness with entrepreneurs so they know what to look for when they’re looking for a photographer for this, but basically I’m like, okay, these people like they. There’s so many photographers who can take beautiful photos, but they don’t get what I need. They don’t understand my mindset behind this. They don’t understand that I’m not going to credit them on a facebook ad because I’m paying to get that out there and I don’t want to have to credit people every time I use a photo because it’s going to hurt my business and the goal is to help my business, right?
Jamie: [14:35] Or they don’t necessarily want to give me rights to let a graphic designer edit the photos, which I know makes every photographer bristle. But if I’m going to have a designer creating marketing materials for me, they need to be able to, uh, and I don’t do big editing tweaks, but if, you know, if, uh, if somebody does have a very distinct style on their instagram or something, they need to be able to apply their filters to it and not have the photographer freak out. And so there’s differences in personal brand photography that are very different from traditional portrait shirt. And a lot of them actually, um, are like the opposite of best practices in traditional portraiture that make it very different. And so I basically said, what is it that I need? And then because I wanted a photographer, I could hire on an ongoing basis and I just could not find someone out there that, I mean there was a couple people and I saw the opportunity to help photographers get clients like me who were willing to pay for it even though I could do it myself and I had all the gear who didn’t.
Jamie: [15:36] I’m, I’m at a point where I want to grow a team to leverage what I’m doing so that I’m not doing it all myself doing it myself as not ideal. And I know you love, you could cut your own hair to write your own toenails, but you pay someone else because it makes your life easier. So it makes complete sense. Yeah. And so it’s just, I basically took what I needed and said, okay, there’s this massive need for this. I know I’m not the only one who needs this. And um, I, I do have, I’m in a mastermind of other photographers are not photographers, other entrepreneurs that I pay to be a part of. It’s not one that I’m leading. And I was talking with them. They’re like, oh yeah, it’s so hard to find a photographer who really gets it, and like everything just resonated with what I was saying.
Jamie: [16:21]...
