Episode 28
Dan Frievalt – A Photographer Podcast Interview
Another awesome podcast from SYNC! Matt interviews Dan Frievalt, of Frievalt Photography. He photographs 40 seniors a year these days to make sure he and his clients are getting to do what they want. Listen in to hear how Dan found his sweet spot in terms of session fees, average order, and number of clients. He sat down and really hashed out who he really wanted to work with, down to what movies they like and what athletic endeavors they’re into. Dan is so excited about how many new people are coming into the industry and that it pushes and challenges him. Matt and Dan talk about changing hair/makeup trends and how hs seniors are experts themselves now from YouTube. Don’t miss what Dan recommends you should and shouldn’t spend 1k on. The best advice Dan ever received is “believe in yourself”. Know your client hired you, for you. Your client believes in you. Dan gives great advice about what to do with your “no’s” so make sure you listen til the very end!
Internet Resource:
Movies/Netflix for creativity
Seniors Unlocked FB page (https://www.facebook.com/groups/SeniorsUnlocked/)
Dan does webinars to help people just starting like people did for him
PPA state organizations
Books:
The Purple Cow – Seth Godin (https://amzn.to/2HXekrI)
Contact Info:
http://www.frievaltphotography.com/home
@danfrievalt
Transcription was done by Temi.com which means it’s an AI generated transcript. The transcript may contain spelling, grammar and other errors, and is not a substitute for watching the video.
[00:01] Hello, this is Dan free vault and you are listening to the podcast from nothing to profit.
[00:06] Welcome to from nothing to profit a photographer’s podcast with Matt and Kayak. We’re each week they talk to photographers about what is working in their business now so you can swipe those ideas and grow your business faster.
[00:23] Hey everybody. So Man Hoagland here, I’m recording another podcast while I’m here at sync and I’m with Dan unfree vault here. And this’ll be a fun podcast cause I was just looking at his website. Dan and I don’t know each other well. I mean we’ve ran in circles and been at sink a couple of times with each other, but I wouldn’t say, you know, we’ve had a lot of beers together. So all this’ll be as informative for me as it is for the audience, which will be really cool. So, um, thanks so much for being, being on here.
[00:48] Absolutely. Thanks for having me. We should be cracking beers and we probably should.
[00:52] So this, so let me tell you what I do know about you and then you’re going to tell me the real story of what I should know about you. So I know you’re in Wisconsin and I know that you used to be a graphic designer and now you do a lot of senior work and it seems like you kind of blend that graphic design and senior element together.
[01:11] Is that say absolutely. Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. I was a graphic designer for 12 years and you know, always did photography but never felt like the visions in my head kind of matched what I could do on film. So then when digital started to get more up and rolling, I already had known Photoshop. It just kind of was a perfect timeframe me to merge the two and take the leap.
[01:35] So when you were doing like Photoshop work and to graphic design world, where are you doing stuff on photos or was it more like like layouts for magazines and stuff like that?
[01:44] Yeah, that’s a good question. It was, it was completely different. I actually, I called myself a graphic artist, which is like a cool name, right. But really is a, I took a lot of other people’s work and got it ready for printing and it was an offset printing, which is what are cool things like magazines and stuff. Yeah. It where I’m in the Midwest, it was a lot of like a, it’s called flexographic printing, which was like carton design labels for Ketchup and paper plates and things like that. So what was really cool as I knew the tools of Photoshop, but then when I, but I didn’t really work on that many fatigue photographs. Right. So it’s cool to see how Photoshop can be used and like the cm, why k world and then the photography world, it’s two completely different worlds in one software.
[02:33] Yeah, it is pretty amazing. And it’s really interesting because you talked to some people and they work, they work in InDesign and different things like that. But it seems like Photoshop is just, it’s so wide spanning that a lot. You can do full design work. I mean, obviously we all do that in our studio as well, but, but then you can actually retouch skin as well. You know, it’s pretty amazing stuff
[02:50] and video now. I
[02:52] yeah, exactly. It’s all in there. That’s pretty amazing. Um, so yeah. So anything else we need to know? I mean w how’s Wisconsin? It’s
[03:00] cold. It’s um, yeah, I talked to him, my wife on the phone this morning. I’m like, well it’s raining but it’s not snowing and I’m in a tee shirt and things are green, so all is good. Awesome. That’s awesome. So I have one question for you about your website and um, and then we’ll jump into some of these questions about like what’s working now in the industry and stuff like that. But on your website, when you click on your session page, let me just click on it real quick and see what it says. It says only accepting 40 seniors to provide the most creative and unique senior session for you. So do you want to talk about that? So, I mean 40 seniors, you know, I mean I was wondering first of all how you did it because your, your work is so amazing. So it’s obviously time intensive and then it’s, I think it’s interesting you to say like, Hey, there’s, I can do 40 so it builds that scarcity and stuff like that.
[03:44] And talk a little bit about that. Yeah, absolutely. Part of its scarcity and the other part of it is for many years I photographed everything like we all do when we start off, until we kind of get burnt out or find what are our key focus is and what we really enjoy. And you know, I was photographing hundreds of seniors and it became a production line and that’s kind of why I got out of the graphic design because I was basically, I wasn’t doing creative anymore. It was kind of a production. Like every day I had deadlines, three deadlines a day and this has to get to the printer and this has to be done and this has to be done. And then when I got into photography, as I got busy, it started to be the same feel and I got burnt out. It was just doing so I decided like, okay, I need to change something, so I need to raise my prices.
[04:32] I need to add scarcity and like only get the people who really want to invest in it. Yeah. I mean cause I was looking at your session, one of your sessions is $450 and it has a $300 add on. You know, so you’re just session fee wise, you’re looking at $750 so like obviously nobody, not everyone’s just going to jump in and get amazing artwork by you. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I, you know, took me years to kind of figure that out too because uh, I used to have a lower session fee. Like let’s get them in because once they see everything, you know, hopefully you’ll be rewarded on the backend what higher sales and in theory that kind of works. But it’s also a business based off of hope as well. It is. Yeah. And that works great for the, for the beginning. But once I became more established, I realized that okay, I needed to start doing minimum orders.
[05:20] What? The minute I put minimum orders up, I found my sessions, people weren’t booking me for for whatever reason, that large minimum. And it wasn’t large. It was like $800 minimum. Yeah. And my average at the time was like 1500 so to me it all, it was the same math but they looked at it around at $200 session fee and a $800 minimum and it scared them off. So instead what I found is actually what I did is it started slowly rising. My raising my session fee throughout the year. So you know, June when I want to fill my schedule in a session fee was lower. And then as my schedule started to fill, I started to just naturally raise it cause I’m like I’m getting too many seniors. I can’t keep up. And, and then people just kept booking and it kept booking. So all of a sudden I round up my only have four 50 was my sweet spot. You know, so it wasn’t like one day I just said I’m going to do four or 50 it was like I played with that number and tell people, you know, kind of what I tell people is like, you know, if every person calls in books with you, that’s not necessarily a good yeah.
[06:23] Right. Because I know, yeah, yeah. You may want to look at that a little bit. Yeah, it’s a good thing. But you will be very tired at the end of the year.
[06:29] Right. So I like, well I’ll just keep raising it until like every third call says no and you know, and, and as long as I’m making enough and booking enough and then that’s my sweets.
[06:39] And that’s really good insight because I think a lot of people like, I mean I’m certain we’ll talk to you here at sink and you’ll say, yeah, I just charged $450 for a session and I have a $300 out on. So, and they’ll be like, wow. And they won’t understand that like that that’s market driven. You know, like you figured that out. Like you did less, you did more. He tweaked it until it was like, oh, that for 50 I book is about as many seniors I want and it’s the right type of senior that I want. You know, and that’s the, so they, they, they shouldn’t just w the advice would be that they shouldn’t just go home and charge it for 50, for the session. They should start working. There’s up until they find their sweet spot too.
[07:13] Yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of people, you know, they feel self conscious like, oh, it’s in print or this is what I have to do. And um, but it’s like, no, you can kind of ebb and flow like maybe a comparison as a restaurant, like when things are in demand or like lobster is market price. So it’s like, okay, certain times a year this is the session fee because it’s, you know, I’m not as busy. I can do a lower session fee or um, you know, as I get more busy, this is prime time. The session fee is going to be more and don’t be so caught up in like, okay, I set my session fee for the year. I have to stick with it because if anyone calls, it’s just like, well that, you know, they had a deal in that month. You know, it’s not like I feel like I’m ripping anyone off by adjusting.
[07:58] That makes complete sense. I mean I, it makes me think about the whole idea where like when we book airline tickets, like we’re always like, you know, our days are flexible and then we like sat there and we scan and we were like, okay, we’re going to leave on this day and come back to this day because it saves us a hundred bucks or whatever. So there would be people, you know, that would say, oh, okay, well I want to get my pictures done by you. And they were like, well let’s do it in June. It because it doesn’t matter if we do it in June, July or August, but let’s do in June because it’s a little bit cheaper and we’ll save 100 bucks. You know what I mean? And like, then they get to choose whether they want to save money, but then there’s, you know, it’s just a different mentality. Like they’re saving money but they’re not cheaping out on your services. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. They’re making a choice. So that’s really awesome. Okay, so let’s jump into the questions that we normally do for the podcast. So the first one is just a general question, like what’s working now for you in your business? It can be around your photography or your brand, your business, but what’s working now that you would want to tell our audience about that you think is awesome?
[08:56] I just think being unique is like standing out. We’re trying to do something that’s different because like if, if there’s more photographers in the market, you hear that a lot. Like, oh, everyone’s a photographer, everyone’s a photographer. And that may be the case. And sometimes I feel that too, but I feel like, well there’s only one of me and there’s only, I, I’m trying to do things unique and different so that I stand out and like the, again, the, those 40 people who value that and see that, I think that’s why my averages are high as well because there’s somewhat prequalified by this session for your style and my style. Yeah. Instead of, you know, if I’m, if I’m doing the same thing as everyone else, well then I’m just going to go to the cheapest person race to the bottom and it’s becomes a commodity. Yeah. It comes to come out of. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that’s, that’s what’s worked for me always. And I’ve just keep pushing that further and further.
[09:48] So do you see like I typically see like, I don’t know, I want to call it composite stuff cause I wouldn’t even say it’s positive. Like you guys should just look at his work online so you can see what I’m talking about. But do you feel like you attract like sports and athletes more? Cause that’s the type of work I see in the industry. That reminds me of a little bit yours or are you attracting all kinds of seniors as well? Cause I look at your website and they’re not all just like hockey players, you know, so like who all is coming to you for your style?
[10:16] Yeah, that’s a great question. And um, well one year I sat down in the, in the middle of cold, cold winter month, what I was feeling depressed and started making lists and really like identifying who do I want as my client. Who would that ideal client be? That 40. Yeah. Yeah. And I wrote notes and I just, I guess that things like what movies they would watch, what music they would listen to, like, uh, where they would shop. And because I had already been doing photography at that point, like five, six years, I had a pretty good idea. Um, cause I knew which things I didn’t like to do. Right. Yeah, that was clear. That one pretty easy. If you make this list, there’ll be easy. But yeah. Um, and then the ones like, oh, these sessions were fun and this is what I enjoy doing.
[11:02] And so I realize, okay, seniors is really what I, what I enjoy doing. And not only senior, it’s like I realized I didn’t want like the, the, the beautiful drama queen. It could be drama queen and you know, whatever. It’s like I want an athletic female who likes to maybe get clammed up shows and get glammed up that often, but she’s more like a tomboy athlete that can also transition into a cool look. And, and the same thing with guys. I want someone, you know, that one that is, has a hobby or a sport because they are into the session and they’re not just like, okay, mom said I want, you got to get senior pictures done. So I think identifying that really clear. For me it was an athletic, sporty type person.
[11:49] Right. And in the end, so interesting because in the marketing world, you know, you hear all the time, got to like really niche down and do something unique and all this stuff and you hear it all the time. And I don’t see a lot of people doing it. And I just feel like you’re really succeeding at those principles that just like we’re marketing, we’ll take care of itself. You know, you just keep putting out the work that you love to do and working with the people that you, that you want to work with and it just builds the next person, you know? So like, you know, when I look at your work, I can’t imagine that you’re probably like running tons of paid ads and stuff like that. And a sense because it just seems like it’s self fulfilling itself. You know, you’re attracting the right person and they love it.
[12:23] Yeah. Because they were friends would tell their friends and, and, and, and they’re within the same value or have the same value of towards photography, you know, it’s not just like, oh, they have a lot of money, so come here. No, because as you know, money doesn’t equate, you know, I have people pull up in a, you know, a rusty truck and, and they’re, you know, paying just as much as someone who pulls up in a fancy vehicle. Yeah, exactly.
[12:49] About how, how they value it. Um, we talk a lot on this podcast about how our industry, you know, just like you start in photography and you market to your friends and then you run out of friends and family to photograph and then, uh, you, you’re like, well, I guess I just have to go over after rich people. And it’s just so interesting because I don’t think that’s the answer. You know, you just don’t need to chase. I mean, chase affluent people, like that’s not the only answer. Like you can just find people that value work and speak to them and they’ll, they’ll, you know, they’ll reward your art for sure if they value it. So. Absolutely. Okay, cool. So let’s talk about the industry real quick. So the question is, what is one thing that has you fired up about in the, has you fired up about the industry? It could be something that you’re excited about, something that you hold true about the industry. Just when I, when, when we talk about the industry, what do you think about?
[13:35] Well. Yeah, and I, that was a tough question and I thought when I, when I read it and I think the what, what really then pop to mind is, and some people might think this isn’t cool, but I love how the technology and the, you know, of course I’m into the composites and the effects and stuff. So I, I enjoy that. But even without that, I think there’s so many people coming into the industry, which some people look at as a bad thing, but I think it’s good for competition and it pushes me more and it pushes me to create unique things. And that’s really like taken off. Like every parent that comes in, the, one of the first things they say is like, this isn’t like my senior picture. You know? And we were like, yeah, right. And I even say, I’m like, yeah, like it’s crazy.
[14:22] I agree with you. What we’re doing is crazy. But that’s what gets me fired up. That’s what’s cool is all the cool things. I mean people are doing destination shoots, you know, so it’s not just about composites or affects, you know, it’s, it’s the high end experience. It’s, it’s hair and makeup. It’s like all those cool things that we’re doing for a 17 year old who with today’s Internet and social media and bullying and, and presence. Like hopefully, you know, we’re making a difference in how they feel about their self
